Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/15/1994 02:35 PM Senate L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE                              
                       February 15, 1994                                       
                           2:35 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
 Senator Tim Kelly, Chairman                                                   
 Senator Steve Rieger, Vice-Chairman                                           
 Senator Bert Sharp                                                            
 Senator Judy Salo                                                             
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                    
                                                                               
  OTHERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator George Jacko                                                          
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 286                                                           
 "An Act extending the termination date of the Board of Parole; and            
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 251                                                           
 "An Act relating to the commercial fishing revolving loan fund and            
 the fisheries enhancement revolving loan fund."                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 SB 286 - NO PREVIOUS ACTION.                                                  
                                                                               
 SB 251 - See Labor & Commerce minutes dated 2/10/94.                          
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 Greg Winegar, Manager                                                         
 Division of Investments                                                       
 Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development                                      
 P.O. Box 34159                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska 99803-4159                                                     
   POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 251.                                    
                                                                               
 Ray Gillespie                                                                 
 Assn. of Regional Aquaculture Associations                                    
 9478 Riverbend Court                                                          
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
   POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 251                                     
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-9, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TIM KELLY  called the Labor and Commerce Committee meeting     g    
 to order at 2:35 p.m.                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY introduced SB 286 (EXTEND BOARD OF PAROLE) sponsored            
 by the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee and explained he wanted to           
 expedite the bill.  He also explained an audit was presently being            
 conducted, but has not yet been received; however, he said the next           
 committee of referral was the Judiciary Committee.                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR SHARP moved to pass SENATE BILL NO. 286 (EXTEND BOARD OF              
 PAROLE) from committee with individual recommendations.  Without              
 objections, so ordered.                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY returned SB 251 (COMMERCIAL FISH LOANS FOR CERTAIN              
 OBLIGATIONS) to committee and announced a committee substitute had            
 been drafted by the Labor & Commerce Committee staff.  SENATOR                
 KELLY reviewed some of his concerns on the original bill, and he              
 checked with SENATOR JACKO, who wanted an immediate effective date            
 put on the bill.  SENATOR KELLY said an immediate effective date              
 would be in a new section on the final page of the committee                  
 substitute.                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY directed his committee aide, JOSH FINK to summarize             
 the committee substitute.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 043                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. FINK began with page 2, where he explained the deletion of                
 child support payments in both the previous committee substitute as           
 well as the new one.  On page 3, he said Section 2 is new and adds            
 three new details to the IRS loans, the first being the individual            
 must have filed past due tax obligations, must file past and                  
 current tax returns with the IRS, and execute an agreement with the           
 federal government for repayment of past due federal tax                      
 obligations.  Secondly, it would cap the loan at $30 thousand, and            
 thirdly, it would allow the loan to be made to an individual only             
 once during that person's lifetime.                                           
                                                                               
 Going to a new Section 4, on page 4, MR. FINK explained it would              
 allow the commissioner to transfer 50% of the excess in the                   
 commercial fishing loan fund to the fisheries enhancement fund.               
 He also explained Section 7 on page 4 is new and would provide that           
 the hatchery or other enhancement or rehabilitation activity for              
 which the loan is requested will provide a significant contribution           
 to common property fisheries, be operated in a manner beneficial to           
 the public interest, and be managed in a financially viable manner.           
                                                                               
 MR. FINK said the last section on page 5 would contain the                    
 effective date.                                                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER referenced page 4, line 29, to question funds being            
 available under AS 16.10.340(c), and whether it should be a policy            
 generally, instead of only from the funds transferred from the                
 revolving loan fund.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 092                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. FINK offered to look at the statutes to check the parameters in           
 current law.                                                                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY inquired if any one wanted to testify on SB 251, and            
 GREG WINEGAR, with the Division of Investments, thought he could              
 answer the question posed by SENATOR RIEGER in reference to page 4,           
 line 29 on the criteria for investments.                                      
                                                                               
 MR. WINEGAR explained that much of Section 7 contains provisions              
 which are accomplished already, and he explained how his division             
 had input into the process.  He referred to the financial viability           
 of the hatchery facilities and explained the procedure the division           
 uses on each individual loan, if funds were transferred from the              
 commercial fishing fund into the fisheries enhancement fund.                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER didn't think that previous loans to the hatcheries             
 have paid back any money, notwithstanding the six year grace                  
 period.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. WINEGAR explained there were a number of loans that have been             
 restructured, especially in recent seasons, where there has been              
 problems with returns and price, but he said a number of loans have           
 been repaid in full.                                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER asked if there was a pattern of species which                  
 allowed a greater return on the loans, or if it was, in previous              
 testimony, the geographic placement of the hatchery that determined           
 the repayment of the loans.                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WINEGAR reviewed assorted problems with different species, most           
 recently with the pink salmon, but he said it wasn't specific to              
 one species or area.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 145                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR JACKO expressed concern about Section 2, page 3, line 31,             
 and page 3, line 1 "under (a)(1) of this section to satisfy past              
 due federal obligations may not exceed $30,000."  He thought the              
 limit hampered the intent of the bill, since he knew there were               
 permit holders who owe more than that amount.  He thought the                 
 present borrowing limit was $300 thousand.                                    
 SENATOR KELLY said the committee substitute was written to make               
 certain that with a limited amount of funds available, it would               
 allow more people to take care of their problem, without the money            
 being used for fewer big loans.  He didn't think anyone owing $100            
 thousand to the IRS deserved to keep their permit and fish in                 
 Alaska, in his judgement.  SENATOR KELLY said he was willing to let           
 the committee change the number, but he thought the $30,000 would             
 take care of 80% of the problems.  He said he was more concerned              
 about the little person and not the big operators who owe such                
 large amounts.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 192                                                                    
                                                                               
 Next to testify was RAY GILLESPIE, representing the four Regional             
 Aquaculture Associations, who spoke to the hatchery program in                
 reference to Section 4 which allows the commissioner flexibility to           
 move excess funds from the commercial fishing loan program.  In               
 talking to the department, he was told they have a sophisticated              
 method of forecasting loan demands, and there was no intention to             
 short change the commercial fishing loan program, or sacrifice it             
 for the benefit of the hatchery enhancement loans.                            
                                                                               
 MR. GILLESPIE described the four regional aquaculture associations            
 he represents, formed by fishing organizations that vote on the               
 formation of the association, and self impose an enhancement tax on           
 themselves.  He explained those types of hatchery loans are secured           
 by the enhancement taxes levied by the fishermen on their members.            
 He quoted state law which prevents any repeal of taxes until all of           
 the loans are repaid by the regional associations.                            
                                                                               
 MR. GILLESPIE also described the category of loans to non-regional            
 aquaculture associations, which he said were not supported by the             
 same type of payment structure.                                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER asked MR. GILLESPIE if he represented the "cost                
 recovery fishery."                                                            
                                                                               
 MR. GILLESPIE explained the "cost recovery fishery" refers to an              
 activity that allows all hatcheries, regional and non-regional, to            
 sell a portion of the returning fish to cover part of the expenses            
 of the hatchery operation - including debt repayment.  He said this           
 was done under the close scrutiny of the Department of Fish and               
 Game.                                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY directed attention to a table entitled LOAN PROGRAMS            
 CASH FLOW ANALYSIS - FY95 BUDGET PREPARATION, drafted on 1/11/94,             
 to the entry dealing with Fisheries Enhancement to show they loaned           
 out $8,372,400.00 in FY93, in FY94 $5,206,400.00, and in FY95 there           
 is the projected demand for $11,163,000.00.                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY noted the Fishery Enhancement association expects to            
 receive about $10 million from the Commercial Fishing Revolving               
 Loan Fund in their FY95 loan request, and he asked MR. GILLESPIE              
 how the hatchery association expects to fund $11 million loans with           
 the $10 million.  He asked whether MR. GILLESPIE'S group was also             
 asking for additional money.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. GILLESPIE explained they were asking that the Commissioner of             
 Commerce be given flexibility in the event there is excess funds in           
 the Commercial Fishing Revolving Loan Fund, and he also explained             
 they didn't have a specific request for a certain amount of money.            
                                                                               
 Number 251                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asked for anyone to speak who knows the projected               
 need for the income tax loans, because it would be a new concept              
 for the revolving loan fund.  He said there was $14 million in                
 outstanding tax delinquencies amongst Alaskan residents with                  
 fishing permits, and he wanted to know the source of the money.               
                                                                               
 MR. WINEGAR explained there was no new money forecast for the fund,           
 but there was a $5 million excess depending on the repayments and             
 the loan demand for limited entry permits and vessels.                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asked if there were plans to transfer $10 million               
 from the revolving loan fund account to the fisheries enhancement             
 fund.  MR. WINEGAR explained that within the budget bill there was            
 a provision to add $9.9 million.  SENATOR KELLY claimed they were             
 also looking for another $5 million in addition.  MR. WINEGAR said            
 SENATOR KELLY was correct, and he explained the transfer process.             
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY questioned the anticipated loan amounts if the                  
 legislature allows these types of tax loans.  MR. WINEGAR said                
 there were no specific numbers, but he thought there would be a               
 fairly limited number of those meeting the criteria for debt                  
 service and collateral.                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY and MR. WINEGAR discussed the new type of loans, not            
 being able to anticipate the future, projected earnings, and two              
 different entities vying for the same pot of cash.  SENATOR KELLY             
 thought there should be more work done on a way to fund the tax               
 payments, before any fund transactions are made with fisheries, but           
 he thought those decisions would be made in the finance committee.            
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER asked MR. WINEGAR if his department was planning to            
 revise the projected loan demand and restructure taxes in the event           
 the bill was passed.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 301                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. WINEGAR described the revisions that would be needed if SB 251            
 passed including those in another bill dealing with Individual                
 Fishing Quotas that would have an impact on the loan fund.                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY said there would be a need for further revision with            
 the advent of refrigeration units in fishing vessels, which he                
 thought would present a significant loan requirement to be added              
 into the funding formula.  MR. WINEGAR agreed and said it could               
 have an effect on the number of loans made.                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY suggested MR. WINEGAR should take another look at the           
 assumptions on the loan requirements given the new obligations in             
 this bill, SB 251.  MR. WINEGAR agreed there may not be any funds             
 available after funding the IRS payments to do any transfers,                 
 depending on the new statutes.                                                
                                                                               
 SENATOR SALO asked for the number of permit holders who would take            
 advantage of the loan program.  Any projections?                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY said he only knew there were 1,173 permit holders who           
 didn't file income tax returns and another 1,111 that filed, but              
 owe a balance on their returns.  He figured there were 2,283 permit           
 holders who owe money to the IRS out of the 8,800 limited entry               
 permit holders, of those 24% collectively owe about $14 million to            
 the IRS.                                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR SALO clarified that child support payments had been deleted           
 from SB 251, and SENATOR KELLY said it was.  He asked for a motion            
 on the bill.                                                                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER moved to adopt the new committee substitute for                
 Senate Bill No. 251.  Without objections, so ordered.                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR RIEGER moved to pass CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 251(L&C)                  
 (COMMERCIAL FISH LOANS FOR CERTAIN OBLIGATIONS) from committee with           
 individual recommendations and an immediate effective date in both            
 title and section.  SENATOR SALO objected.                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR SALO expressed concern the bill needed more scrutiny and              
 suggested it be kept in committee to examine both of the new                  
 provisions in the committee substitute.  She said her over all                
 concern was that these fishermen, who wanted to borrow money to pay           
 the IRS, did not seem to be good risks and had poor credit                    
 histories.                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY said those points have been discussed in a prior                
 meeting, and he agreed with some of her criticism.  He asked MR.              
 WINEGAR to review the questions covered in the previous meeting on            
 the legislation.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 353                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. WINEGAR explained many of these people would not qualify, and             
 he explained his department would apply the same sort of criteria             
 that is used in other parts of the loan program to the applicants.            
 He said they would look for adequate collateral and sufficient                
 income to repay the loan.  He thought there would only be a small             
 percentage of the permit holders who would apply for an IRS loan.             
                                                                               
 SENATOR SHARP said that three of the legislators on the Labor and             
 Commerce Committee would be examining ramifications of the bill in            
 the Finance Committee, the next committee of referral.  He thought            
 the scrutiny should be focused in the Finance Committee, and he               
 talked in terms of data he would like to have collected before the            
 committee meets.                                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY agreed to pass the bill from committee on SENATOR               
 SHARP'S conditions, and SENATOR SALO removed her objections.                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY then declared CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 251(L&C)                   
 (COMMERCIAL FISH LOANS FOR CERTAIN OBLIGATIONS) passed from                   
 committee with individual recommendations and an immediate                    
 effective date in both title and section.                                     
                                                                               
 There being no further business to come before the committee, the             
 meeting was adjourned at 3:02 p.m. by SENATOR KELLY.                          
                                                                               

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